1,460 (President Casey Murray Signs Off)

Today's SWAPA Number is 1,460. That's the total number of days that Casey Murray will have been in office when his presidency comes to a close on December 31st.  So, to close the year out, we sat down with Casey to put a bow on his terms as president and life at SWAPA. We'll contrast what the organization looked like when he started and what it will be as we look into the future. 

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Transcript

Tony Mulhare:

Today's SWAPA Number is 1460. That's the total number of days that Casey Murray will have been in office when his presidency comes to a close on December 31st.

Matt McCants:

To close the year out, we sat down with Casey to put a bow on his terms as president and life at SWAPA. We'll contrast what the organization looked like when he started and what it will be as we look into the future.

Tony Mulhare:

I'm Tony Mulhare.

Matt McCants:

And I'm Matt McCants.

Tony Mulhare:

Here's our conversation with Casey.

Matt McCants:

All right, Casey, let's begin at the beginning. This is going to be a bit of a SWAPA history lesson of sorts. You had been on the ALPA negotiations team at ASA during your time there before coming to Southwest in 2007. SWAPA quickly IDs you as an asset and you're on the NC from 2009 to 2012. What were those conversations like bringing you aboard? Tell us about those early years.

Casey Murray:

Actually, Carl was SWAPA president back then. I had been at the Company less than a year. I got a call. We had had a TA fail, and the NC had stepped down, which is a deja vu to the future. He called and asked if I would be interested, and I actually said no. I had been doing it at ASA, and actually for ALPA as well. I came here to fly.

Carl called me back about two or three days later. He says, "Hey, we're difference. Come and at least talk to me." So I did. I ended up doing what I thought would be a short term six-month, re-negotiate. And right in the middle of that Frontier, Southwest tried to buy Frontier out of bankruptcy. That ended up failing due to bankruptcy and secondary creditor issues. I led that endeavor as chair of merger and acquisition at that point. We did end up getting TA2 that came through and passed in 2009. While we were implementing and working through, over the next year, then AirTran happened. Worked through AirTran. That lasted a little over a year. Started work on the next CBA in 2012, but I stepped away prior to that and opening.

Yeah, that's how it started, that long ago. I was very happy with where we ended up on some of those items.

Tony Mulhare:

Casey, you mention that you took a respite of sorts in 2011, 2012 timeframe. But then you come back in 2015 to join the Training and Standards Committee. And that came with some experience that you had working overseas doing training, right?

Casey Murray:

Yeah. I got asked by Tom Gasparillo who had been elected, he was chair of the Training and Standards Committee. He was elected second VP. He asked me if I would come in part-time, which is what I agreed to do. Was still flying, working Training and Standards as a committee member. And did that right up until November 2015, so I did that a couple years. In November 2015, we had another TA fail. That leads into the last eight years.

Matt McCants:

Yeah, Casey, that leads into 2015 where even as a new hire, back then I was just trying to learn flows. But I could tell there was some distress in the organization, to say the least. Walk us through what happened there.

Casey Murray:

They brought a TA in July 2015, so I was still Training and Standards. I happened to be in the building for the week that the TA actually was voted down. The NC had quit. The president had ended up stepping down. That all occurred that week. There was a lot of board thrash that was going on with just everything that was occurring. Very quickly, they had identified John as a new president, and Mike Panebianco was vice president at the time. He was actually president pro tem. But he was first vice president and he asked me if I would lead up the team. I said, "Absolutely not."

The board asked me to come in and give an overview of what could be done, and just give them my thoughts on moving forward. And I did. What I saw with SWAPA back then was really just a lack of communication. There was a lack of communication between negotiating committee and board. There was a lack of communication between the president and the board. And a lack of communication all the way back to 2008, which was the reason the TA1 failed, to this TA that failed in 2015. A lot of it had to do with where the membership was, what their expectations were, and how those differed from what SWAPA was working towards. And just very little communication in what the membership wanted and what they were brought. That all fell on SWAPA.

What I told the board very simply was, "It's just communication. You guys need to change the structure in here, in the boardroom. But more importantly, you've got to learn to talk to the pilots. You have to learn to talk to the public. You have to learn how to talk to management." I said, "It can be done." I said, "But you've got to change dramatically how business is being done." They said, "Thank you very much." I walked out of the room.

They asked me to come in the next day and said, "Hey, if we give you everything you need to do that, to do the communication, would you do it?" Again, for me, it was looking at a six-month, six to nine-month negotiation. I had a very supportive wife, family. I said I would do it.

First thing we did, we had to reconstitute a new NC. We did an all call, we brought in all new people. But also, parallel to that and really more important than that was setting up communications. How were we going to communicate with the membership, what we were going to do. That gave genesis to a platform, which is what we were asking for. We brought the membership ... The membership got the platform, which was everything we were asking for, at the exact moment that we presented it to the National Mediation Board, because we were in mediation at that point. That was the first time the Company saw it, the same time our membership did. There really should never be a disconnect between where you're at, where the membership's at, and where you are with the Company.

Tony Mulhare:

Casey, you mentioned there a lack of communication in developing the original platform that failed in TA1. How then did you and your team develop that communication with the pilot group to figure out what was needed to get a TA2 that would pass? How did you develop and execute that strategy?

Casey Murray:

Well, we approached it from several aspects. We did some very quick polling. One of the things being independent union, one of the things that we were able to do very quickly is do polling, and everybody experienced that in the SCP process in the lead up to negotiations in 2020. So we did that.

We also immediately scheduled a picket. We're like, "We've got to apply some pressure. The Company has to realize what their pilots are worth." By that point, the membership had told us what they wanted. We incorporated that into a very analytic platform. We approached it very, again, data-driven, analytically, and presented a cost structure to what we were asking for that really could never be disputed, even though they tried.

Ultimately, we ended up very close to where the platform was. We ended up with something that Gary Kelly, the negotiators, and a lot of the management team said we would never have ever at Southwest Airlines, which was a B Fund.

Tony Mulhare:

Casey, I was a new hire in 2017. One of the first things I experienced with SWAPA was the survey, educate, and polling process that started with emails, all the RP articles that went in, the negotiating point articles. The phone calls that I got doing polling, asking where I was. Was that the first time that was executed for SWAPA, leading up into the contract 2020 opener?

Casey Murray:

It was. I can actually say that it's the first time it's ever happened really with any labor union in the middle of having a mature contract. That occurs, to some degree, when a union is brought on board and you have to create a document. It was the first time that anyone had really attempted a rewrite, a complete rewrite.

We set up this seven-week rolling on every section of the contract, survey, educate, and poll. It was a very tight timeline. It took into account holidays. And really provided us with over a million data points, and allowed us to present them a fully rewritten contract. It was also, to the communication aspect, a way to let the pilots speak. And also, let the pilots set the expectation and set the expectation of SWAPA of exactly what they wanted, instead of the other way around. It was our attempt the entire time to let the pilots speak and I think we did it.

Matt McCants:

Yeah. It was very clear to me too, that this was shifting towards a very data-driven approach, and that's something that we're carrying forward today. I think we really hang our hat on being a data-driven organization.

Being the glutton for punishment that you are, you run for president then in the middle of a Black Swan event that was the pandemic. Plenty of us out on the line remember the chaos back then. Let's characterize what it looked like inside the halls of SWAPA.

Casey Murray:

It's hard to really address what was going on inside of SWAPA without first looking at what was going on out on the line and where our pilots were at. We were in the middle of COVID as we opened negotiations. And then I took over in '21. In the middle of COVID, in the middle of them getting a vaccine out. Which led to then, on top of the uncertainty of COVID, on top of the financial uncertainty in the economic markets, then our pilots were exposed to a mandate in '21. No matter how you felt about the vaccine, the mandate elicited very strong reactions.

We were dealing with that, as well as a snap-back, or as it was labeled then, revenge travel. That none of the airlines were prepared for, but Southwest less than most. Our pilots were dealing with hotels that didn't have food. We were dealing with record reroutes, record fatigue. Our pilots were trying to manage their lives. Getting JA'ed. Trying to, again, get food, get sustenance, get hotel rooms, get transportation. Then that led into, of course, the greatest meltdown in probably corporate history that wasn't an Enron or the like. Our pilots had to endure, flight attendants, everyone had to endure several weeks. Then the fallout that occurred from that.

It was literally one thing after another that our pilots had to dealt with, and that stress. And trying to get our customers from A to B. That transitions to what we're dealing with at SWAPA. Trying to deal with each of those events and the numerous things that had to be addressed. It was stressful in the workload on everybody at SWAPA, whether it was staff or committee.

And really allowed us to also, and this is an aside, but it allowed us to stress test what this umbrella we were under. All those events and we were in negotiations. Within the halls, we were also stress testing the language that we had written. It held up remarkably well. I don't know, many weren't here for Hindsight when they basically rebuilt all our lines after bidding.

Matt McCants:

Oh, I remember.

Casey Murray:

Yeah. It was just so much that was going on. But again, it provided some opportunities, as far as what we were doing at SWAPA and what we were doing in negotiations. We had to keep our eye on the ball on that the entire time.

Tony Mulhare:

Case, it sounds like a lot of crises all piling up on each other. You go from COVID, right into the contract, and then we get Eliot that comes right after that.

In the middle of all of that crisis management, do you feel like you were able to maintain a strategic vision for where you were trying to take SWAPA? Or do you feel like you got embroiled in the crisis of the day?

Casey Murray:

Well, I just said it. We had to keep our eye on the ball with negotiations. Our pilots had to be supported and we were trying to do that. But we were also, again, focusing on negotiations and trying to leverage every little thing that was occurring to what the Company needed within our CBA. The JAs and the reroutes were just out of control. And the airline, and the operation, and the processes that led to how they operate the airline were out of control as well.

We kept taking the opportunity to point out to not only the public and the media, but to our pilots and then ultimately management that, "Hey, you need this rewrite. You need a tool and a utility that will allow you to more effectively run the airline." If you look back over the past, well, year now, 11 months since the contract was negotiated, the metrics on how we measure the operation, where reassignments are at, on-time performance, all of that is infinitely better this past summer than it has been in literally 10 years worth of summers.

We were trying to, again, leverage each little event that was occurring and show Wall Street, show the media, because the Company wasn't listening. The Company didn't have the data. To show them what this airline could be. Trying to keep the pressure on negotiations while supporting our pilots, it's what we do and I'm proud of how we dealt with it. I lost a lot of hair and age in the midst of it all. I know a lot of committee and staff did as well. That is what we do.

Tony Mulhare:

Case, that's a good summary of your time as president. What are the high points of your time as SWAPA president? What are you the most proud of? And then conversely, what were the low points? What were the hardest times of your days as president?

Casey Murray:

I think there's two things that I'm ready to hand this off to Jody with. One is the one that Jody had a big part in, which was the CBA. It pretty much brought us on parity, if not slightly ahead in many areas. It also aligned us, as far as when our peers are opening their contract negotiations in '26, '27, and '28. We'll be right at the end of that, which is the perfect place to be, once again. And it brought our contract, again, like I said, to parity or slightly ahead so that moving forward, all of us will be working together to push the profession forward. The CBA as a whole, but also where it set us up for the future is a huge deal.

Then I think the other that was focused on in the background, and one that nobody has really seen. Although here recently, you've seen communications from myself and from Hank about where we transitioned over the past four years, as far as an organization. And recognizing that we're not a mom-and-pop anymore. We're a $50 million company. We put protections in place to use corporate best practices. Hank Ketchum had a large role in that. I brought him on as IAC Chair of the Internal Audit Committee. That's where he started. He was a member of the NC in 2016, and then stepped away for a little while. He has a risk management background. Anybody that's met him can speak to his acumen when it comes to corporate finance.

He did his internal audit, and then immediately we set up one of the findings, that we needed an executive operating committee to better deal with the day-to-day operation. SWAPA in the past had set a budget, and then at the end of year said, "Oh, look, we have $300,000 extra. We'll put it into the reserve fund." What we needed was a more day-to-day look and a more day-to-day management. New finance director, we had Hank come in as, again, a part of the EOC. We redid our entire corporate structure as far as financing, as far as the business side of SWAPA, contract procurement and how we manage that. We were able to start looking on a day-to-day basis of where the money was, and we've ended the last few years with quite a bit more money to put into the reserve fund than we had before, but we're a lot tighter an organization. Those two things are going to really set SWAPA up for success moving forward.

As far as low points, part of our reorganization within the organization, we've had to make some changes to committee pilots, we've had to make some changes with staff. That's always difficult. I had to realize early on that we have to try to cater towards 100% of the pilots, but it's just not possible. I learned to compartmentalize. We're not going to make everybody happy. But SWAPA has succeeded over the past eight or nine years with very good approval ratings, and I want to see that continue.

That's what concerns me most as we move into the future, is making sure that we not only continue to do what we've done, but we build on it and build better. I think you've got a great board, a great executive team that's going to be able to do that.

Matt McCants:

Now one of the most consistent messages from you during your tenure is, "Call SWAPA first." Talk more about why that is.

Casey Murray:

One of the things that I harp on is SWAPA's independence as an independent union. We have no affiliations outside. Our affiliations are our pilots. Everything that we do focuses on our pilots. Whatever we're doing on the Hill, whatever we're doing on Wall Street or in front of the media, or with the Company is strictly about what our pilots want and what our pilots need. We're not bowing towards AFL-CIO affiliations that the rest of the other unions have. That, I've always thought, allowed us to focus strictly on our pilots and strictly on our pilots as individuals.

In doing that, considering that we have provided the supplemental insurances that we've provided over the years, and then the support services that we have, LIFT and our SISM team, family awareness. Part of the saying of call SWAPA first, or as I've said many times, "If your daughter falls off a bike, call SWAPA," speaks towards that service organization that we really strive to focus on, and focus on the individuals as pilots.

That was always my way of just reinforcing that we are a full service organization. We're not out there spending time or resources on other causes, it is strictly about our pilots. I wanted our pilots to understand that, and our pilots to understand that we should be the first person when there's ever any type of event. Whether it's financial, whether it's someone gets hurt or someone is struggling. Then of course, it goes without saying if it's 2:00 and you're on the ramp, and it's thunder storming, that's our core job.

Tony Mulhare:

Case, as we wrap up our conversation today, what would you like to leave as your parting message to the pilot crew?

Casey Murray:

I think the most important thing moving forward is there's a lot of esoteric things I could say. Treat your coworkers great. Treat your family well. Those are all things that Southwest preaches as well, the Golden Rule, all of that.

But I think most importantly, as we move forward as pilots and unionized pilots is continue to know your worth. Continue to know what you've done to get in the seat you're in today, the expertise that you have. Know that you're not replaceable. Know that you are as valued as any corporate executive out there because when you're moving that airplane, you are its corporate executive. I also think that you have to demand that SWAPA continue to do what they've done, as far as communication. As far as making sure that you are the primary focus. But again, know your worth, know your value, take care of one another.

Matt McCants:

Any last words?

Casey Murray:

Yeah. I want to thank each and every pilot. Pilots have been very good to me for many years, and this has always been about them. I can't tell you how much it's meant, the support that I've been shown. Not only to SWAPA, but addressing me. I'm out there every week, whether flying or commuting here to Dallas. I just can't tell you how much that each pilot out there has made every day and every struggle that I've had worth it. Thank you. I'll be turning the reigns over in 11 days, and I really have appreciated the time and really the privilege of serving each of you.

Tony Mulhare:

We'd like to thank Case for his time today, and for his sacrifice of time over the years, and for all he's done for SWAPA and the pilots of Southwest Airlines.

As a reminder, if you have any feedback, comments, or suggestions, please drop us a line at comm@swapa.org. We really do love hearing from our listeners.

Matt McCants:

Today's bonus number is 3593. That's the number of pilots that have joined SWAPA since Casey became president. But there really isn't a number that can capture Casey's service to this membership. Service will always be something we can't really quantify. Thanks again, Case. We were lucky to have you.