5 (Airborne Excellence with Kirby Chambliss)

Today's SWAPA Number is 5. That's the number of US National Aerobatics Championships that Kirby Chambliss has earned, along with 13 medals at the World Aerobatic Championships and two season championships in the Red Bull Racing series. So today, we are sitting down on location with Kirby in his Chandler, Arizona hangar to talk about his life in an airplane, his passion for inspiring the next generation, and what comes next.

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Transcript

Matt McCants:

Today's SWAPA Number is five. That's the number of US National Aerobatics Championships that Kirby Chambliss has earned, along with 13 medals at the World Aerobatic Championships and two season championships in the Red Bull Racing series.

Tony Mulhare:

So, today we are sitting down on location with Kirby in his Chandler, Arizona hangar to talk about his life in an airplane, his passion for inspiring the next generation, and what comes next.

Matt McCants:

I'm Matt McCants.

Tony Mulhare:

And I'm Tony Mulhare.

Matt McCants:

And this is our conversation with Kirby Chambliss.

To get this straight, your Southwest start was as an ops agent?

Kirby Chambliss:

Ramp agent.

Matt McCants:

A ramp agent.

Tony Mulhare:

Hey, okay.

Kirby Chambliss:

And before that I fueled them. I was a fueler. I worked for Jinero.

Tony Mulhare:

Where was that at?

Kirby Chambliss:

This was San Antonio. But when I told my dad... My dad was a machinist, and when I told my dad, I go, "I want to be a pilot." Because there's pictures of me, when two to three years old. I loved airplanes. That's all I ever wanted to do. And when I told my dad, I go, "I want to be an airline pilot," and he's like, "Forget about it." He goes, "No." I mean, and it wasn't that he was being an ass, it's just how do you do that? I mean, we don't have the means to do it or anything else.

I just wanted to be around airplanes, so I was a fueler at different places. In San Antonio, I was a fueler for Jinero, and so Jinero fueled Southwest. So, then I drove over there, and I'd be fueling Southwest. Then I'm like, "Hey, these guys in these orange jumpsuits, they make more money, though. How do I get this job here?" And then, so I got that job. And then every time that I'm pushing an airplane back, I'd be like... I'm sure they were like, "Oh, my god, don't go through San Antonio. That kid will bug the shit out of you. Don't go."

I'd be like, "How does that work? And how does this work? And how does that work? And how do you do that?" I mean, they couldn't get away from me because you'd sit there. Back then you're five minutes, the guys were in the seat, and you're like...

So, that's kind of how I figured out how I go down this road. And then I instructed and all that. And then I got really lucky, and I got a job when I was 21 flying for La Quinta Motor Inns. And it was a Citation, but we flew 80 to 100 hours every month. So, in two and a half years, I ended up... I mean, I think when I got on with Southwest, I had 4,500 hours, 2,000 hours of jet time, two jet type ratings, and I turned 25 in class. So, it worked really well for me from that side of it, just happened to get that job to be able to get all that, I guess, Citation time, but it's still jet time, when we still had that.

Tony Mulhare:

How old were you when you took your first flying lesson?

Kirby Chambliss:

I think I was 17 or 18 or something. Yeah. Actually, it was a little bit younger than that. I still have the airplane, but my dad, since he was a machinist, when I was really young, he and a partner had a Ercoupe. And if you're familiar with Ercoupe, it didn't have any rudder pedals.

Tony Mulhare:

Yeah, just... Yeah.

Kirby Chambliss:

You just drive it around.

Matt McCants:

Yeah, yeah.

Kirby Chambliss:

So, I got to fly a little bit in that. And then my dad built a Davis. The Davis has got a little detail, a 17-foot wingspan, and it looks like the box the plane should have come in. Actually, it looks like a stealth fighter, if you were to look at, because it's just squared off everything, detail and all that. So, he built that, and when I was 13, I helped him buck the rivets in all the tails of it.

I mean, I remember him coming home. I guess I was 13, and back then there was no kits even. He went and had all the sheet metal in a U-Haul trailer. He goes, this is a airplane. I was like, "What an idiot." And sure enough, a year later he flew it, so I guess I was the idiot, and then he built another airplane after that. So, I got to be involved in that, but I always wanted to fly. But again, it was Southwest, pushing the airplane back and forth. I didn't know any airline pilots or anything else to ask [inaudible 00:04:04].

Matt McCants:

Right, right, Except for the ones that you were bugging when you were on the ramp.

Kirby Chambliss:

Yeah, I mean, all those guys, yeah, I got to know everybody. Yeah. Yeah, and I'm sure they were just like, "Man, we'll bid away from San Antonio so we don't have to talk to that guy. He will drive you crazy." That was me [inaudible 00:04:15].

Tony Mulhare:

But I think that's one of the great things about pilots is pilots love talking about flying.

Kirby Chambliss:

Of course, yeah.

Tony Mulhare:

And every pilot has that kid, or we were all that kid-

Kirby Chambliss:

Sure. Yeah, we were all trying to figure it out.

Tony Mulhare:

... and just wanted to ask questions. I think we love that. I don't know if that makes us unique in our industry, that when there's a kid that wants to talk to you about flying, and you're worried about bugging the pilots, but they love it. They eat it up. They want to tell you everything they can.

Kirby Chambliss:

I'm sure most did, but I'm sure there was a couple, they were like, "Oh, my god. You asked me this for the last..." The same guy, "I came through here every time, and you keep asking me these questions."

But I really did. I always wanted to be the guy on the headset, you know-

Tony Mulhare:

Yeah.

Kirby Chambliss:

... because you had the guy... We pushed back, but I always wanted to be on the headset to see, talk to the pilots about what I wanted to do.

And then that was funny. With that Davis, I would bring it around after I got all my ratings and stuff. And before I got my corporate job, I took Herb Kelleher for a ride in it. And the pilots went crazy because, I mean, here I am, I got a commercial license, I got a couple of hundred hours.

Well, back then I'd just drag it up under the jetway, and I was washing it. And I knew Herb commuted from San Antonio to Dallas, so he was in there. So, I knew him pretty well, "Hey, Herb," and he comes out. He'd go, "Hey, Kirby. What is that?" And I go, "That's my Davis. My dad built it," blah blah. And he goes, "That's so cool." I go, "You want to go for a ride?" Because the flight is delayed. We're waiting on the flight. There's no flights, and then he goes, "Yeah, I'd love to."

Tony Mulhare:

How old were you when that happened?

Kirby Chambliss:

I was probably 19, I guess. Maybe 19.

Tony Mulhare:

So, that was your first interview with-

Kirby Chambliss:

Yeah.

Tony Mulhare:

... Southwest was with-

Kirby Chambliss:

No. No. Uh-uh. No.

Tony Mulhare:

No, I know it was not an official interview, but your first interview, unofficially, for Southwest was flying-

Kirby Chambliss:

Oh, was a pilot, you mean?

Tony Mulhare:

... [inaudible 00:05:52]. Yeah.

Kirby Chambliss:

Yeah. Yeah, probably. Yeah. He wrote me a letter. I still have the letter. And it's pretty cool because you could never do this now. But in the letter... So, I took him flying, and then the pilots went nuts when they found out some dumbass ops agent was flying around an experimental airplane with the CEO. They were not happy at all.

But the letter, though, he said... Jim Amos was the chief pilot or VP of flight ops, and he said, "I would never tell you who to hire, but if Kirby meets the requirements of a pilot or whatever, I would like for you to hire him," or whatever. Of course, then I thought, "Man, as soon as I get my type rating, I'm going to get a job."

I had already got my type rating and all that, and then a year later I'm like, "What the hell? Doesn't anybody listen to the CEO here? Why is it taking so long?" But it did. It took me a year. Paying for that type rating payment, 353 every month, was like, "Why did I do this? I spent all this money." But anyway-

Tony Mulhare:

Which teenager has flown Herb Kelleher around and-

Kirby Chambliss:

Yeah, it was interesting.

Tony Mulhare:

What a cool story.

Kirby Chambliss:

Yeah. Well, it's so different because I mean, can you imagine dragging your airplane up under a jetway now, how many police would be there?

Tony Mulhare:

Yeah, right.

Kirby Chambliss:

I mean, you can't even go down and walk around on the ramp, but back, it was a different time, you know.

Matt McCants:

Yeah.

Kirby Chambliss:

I, literally, just taxied my airplane over there and use the potable water, and I'm washing it because I got nothing else to do, and then push it off to the side. Southwest, they bring the airplane in. My plane is sitting over there, and yeah, you could never do anything like that now.

Matt McCants:

Yeah, Herb was just out there smoking a cigarette, saw you and said, "Hey, I got some time. What do you say we go take this for spin?"

Kirby Chambliss:

Yeah, yeah. There's no flights. They're delayed. I mean, we're like, everything two hours later, whatever it was, and it was just nothing. He's like, "Yeah, I'd love to. Let's go."

Matt McCants:

What did that finally sound like when you show up for your interview? You'd been a ramper, you've been an ops agent and now they get to the part where they say, "Hey, is this true? Did you fly Herb around?"

Kirby Chambliss:

No, they didn't ask that, but it was interesting because I go in, and what happened, I knew Marcy Lardon because Dennis Lardon was the station manager. Marcy was head of the People Department. This was this new thing that we just got, called a People Department, and she was the head of that. And back then, it was like you had to have the thousand hours PIC jet. It wasn't turbine or whatever. I think that was the thing.

So, I hear these guys getting hired, and here I am, I mean, I got a couple thousand hours of jet time. I'm like, "I'm not getting a call, and I don't understand why." So, then I called Marcy up because, I mean, I'm like, "Hey," because I'm happy to get whatever you want. I'll go do it. But you tell me what you want, and I'll get it.

But I've gone and gotten all the stuff that they said that I had to have, and I haven't gotten a call back, and so I'm pushing hard. She's like, "No, Kirby, we haven't hired anybody like that." I go, "Because this guy told me, and this guy told me, and I know everyone here." So, she's like, "Well, let me check into it." And then she calls me back, and she goes, "Can you be here for an interview on Thursday?" I'm like-

Tony Mulhare:

Perfect.

Kirby Chambliss:

... "Yeah, you betcha you." So, then I go in for the interview, and what I finally figured out, what was happening is that I was so young, they knew we were upgrading in three years. They knew that, and so they were like, "Yeah, yeah, he's got all the hours and everything, but he's pretty young. I mean, he's 24. We don't really want a 27-year-old captain here," or something like that.

So, Doug Rice, he interviews me, and he's looking through all the stuff. And I know him because I worked his flights. I know everybody. I know Jimmy. I know everybody. So, sitting there, and he goes through and he goes, "Kirby," he goes, "yeah, your times look really good and everything. Everything is looking really good." But he said, "Where you're over there, you're building really good time."

And part of it was La Quinta Motor Inn. Sam Barshop is the board of directors, and he owns La Quinta Motor Inn, so they don't want to... I think some of that may have been with that. But he's like, "You're over there, and you're building really good time, so we're just going to leave you over there for a little bit and let you continue to build this time." And I was like, "Okay. Thank you."

So, as I walk out, Sybil goes, "Hey, Kirby," she goes, "Do you have a minute?" I'm like, "Got the rest of my life." I mean, she goes, "You got a minute? Jim would like to talk to you." And I'm like, "Okay, sure." So, I sit there.

30 minutes go by, and I get called into Jim. I thought, "Well, maybe he's going to ask me about... I just got my 737 tie braid, and maybe he wants to know something about, see if I know this." Because I thought they would grill you on what you knew about a 737, which actually was none of the thing. But he start talking about, "Oh, aerobatics." And I'd, like, because La Quinta required me to fly aerobatics somewhat, and that's how I got interested in the whole aerobatic. Our chief pilot guy was like, "All my guys get aerobatic training. The jet ends upside down with the CEO on board."

Anyway, so I was talking to him a little bit about aerobatics, and then he was like, "Is it going to be okay with Barshop and all that if you leave?" And I'm like, "Oh, yeah," which really I didn't care less. And I said, "What do you mean?" He goes, "Well," he goes, "there's a class of six in October, there'll be another one in November, and then maybe another one in December. Would you like to have a class? I'm like, does that mean I'm hired? Because this guy just told me forget about it, and you're the VP of Flight. I said, "What do I need to do? He goes, "Just make sure you have a first-class medical when you show up for class on October the first. I'm like, "Okay."

Matt McCants:

And you showed up for day one of class, and the rest is history.

Kirby Chambliss:

Yeah. A big class, class of six.

Matt McCants:

Wow.

Kirby Chambliss:

But yeah, it was kind of funny.

Tony Mulhare:

So, you're now flying at Southwest Airlines. This is what? '84-'85 timeframe?

Kirby Chambliss:

'84. Yep.

Tony Mulhare:

'84?

Kirby Chambliss:

Mm-hmm.

Tony Mulhare:

Okay, so you're now a new pilot with Southwest. When does the aerobatic thing take off for you?

Kirby Chambliss:

When I was flying corporate, the chief pilot, I've always felt like he was a smart guy. He said, "All my guys get aerobatic training because of that, if the jet ends upside down with the CEO on board, you want to fix it," and all that. I'm like, "Okay, sounds good to me."

Well, we had several pilots, and so we would go out. We actually did it with Duane Cole. We hooked up with H.B. Zachry, their flight department. We used their... They had a decathlon. Anyway, we went out and we literally just rolled the airplane upside down. Now, we're just flying upside down, and I'm like, "This is the coolest thing ever."

And at that point, I couldn't have given a shit about anything other than flying aerobatics. And then some of the other guys, we would get five hours each. I couldn't afford an aerobatic airplane or anything, so at that point. But as soon as I got on with Southwest, literally the day off probation, I went out and I bought a Pitts Special because I financed it, the whole bit, you know.

Tony Mulhare:

Yeah.

Kirby Chambliss:

And then that's all I cared about. I think in one of the books, somebody pointed it out to me and I was like, flying, to me, airlines was just a big inconvenience. All I wanted to do was go fly aerobatics.

Matt McCants:

How did that conversation with the company go? You get introduced to aerobatic flying. You're still with them. How do you approach them? And what were those conversations like?

Kirby Chambliss:

My leave of absence?

Matt McCants:

Sure.

Kirby Chambliss:

I was a check airman for five years. I think, I always tell people, when they went down the list, they meant to either get the guy before me or after me. And they went, "Oh, we just called Kirby. What do we do now?" "Yeah, just okay. Yeah, ask him to be a check airman, too."

So, they liked me at the company and everything. And I'd been asking for a leave for five years before I actually got one-

Matt McCants:

Okay.

Kirby Chambliss:

... literally going because, I mean, I'm so busy with aerobatics and all the... It's just maxed out. I mean, I'm gone 200 days a year, and I'm trying to fly every 90 days at Southwest, and trying to bid, and trying to give away my stuff. I mean, it's just crazy. So, I'd been asking for a leave. "Guys, can I get a leave? Can I get a leave? Can I take a leave?"

And then they came to me and they said, "Hey, for the last five years, you've averaged 38 hours a year." I was like, "High five," and they're like, "Yeah, not so much." And I'm like, "Well," I go, "I've been asking for a leave for five years." And then just happened to be the timing that everybody's trips dropped to 75 or something. There's not enough flying, and they're like, "Now's perfect. You want a leave? You can take a leave," three years.

Tony Mulhare:

What timeframe would this have been?

Kirby Chambliss:

I think it was '09 or '10 or something, or maybe-

Tony Mulhare:

Okay.

Kirby Chambliss:

Yeah, somewhere in there. And yeah, must have been because 10 year... It must have been around 2009 or 2010.

Tony Mulhare:

Okay, so that wasn't that long ago.

Kirby Chambliss:

Yeah.

Tony Mulhare:

So, for that first 25 years you were here, you were doing airline flying, trying to give away stuff to make time to go-

Kirby Chambliss:

Yeah.

Tony Mulhare:

... be in the aerobatics.

Kirby Chambliss:

And not only... I mean, so I was on the U.S. Aerobatic Team.

Tony Mulhare:

Yep.

Kirby Chambliss:

So, that took up a lot. They started the Red Bull Air Race. I was also doing display. I had to do air show flying too for my other sponsors. I had a lot of sponsors before Red Bull. I mean, nothing that was that lucrative, but I had a lot of sponsors before, so I was doing on the U.S. Aerobatic Team, so I'm trying to be the best in the world at that. I was having to do display flying, and then when the Red Bull Air Race started, and then, still, I got all this going on. And then my daughter is born in 2005, and I'm like, "Oh, my god," and I'm still trying to do the airlines. I mean, it's like something's got to give.

And I think that it was probably smart. They're like, "Man, this guy flies 38 hours a year. This is probably not the best idea either, so let's give him a leave." And that's how it started. And then I think I hit it. The timing was perfect again. After three years, they called me and they said... I said, "Well, I'm not really," and they go, "Actually, it's okay," because it was another one. It just happened to be there's no flying.

Tony Mulhare:

Yeah, it was the financial crisis then. Right?

Kirby Chambliss:

Yeah. I mean, yeah. There's no flying, so it's great. If you want to stay out, just stay out. And then I think, after that, they were probably like, "Well, we'll just wait them out," which probably would've worked had there not been for COVID. In 2019, the last race was in Japan, in 2019, like in November. So, that stops. The racing stopped, but I had a race. I had a contract with Rebel GmbH for racing in Austria, and then I was sponsored by Rebel North America, also. So, that part of it stopped, but I'm still sponsored by Rebel North America.

And then I was super heavy into military shows for that next year, already booked out probably 15 or 20 shows. And then right away, as soon as COVID, well, then all my military shows just... When the first one goes, they just go boom, boom. Well, then right after that, the civilian shows. I mean, and this is within a month or something. And my family's used to me being gone 220 days a year, and they're like, "Why are you here?" Because now I'm on a leave. I mean, now, all of a sudden I'm like, "Ah."

So, that's when I called Southwest up and said, "Hey, I'm supposed to come back at the end of the year." I think this is in July or whatever, or June or whatever. And I said, "Can I come back? I'm supposed to come back in October, November or whatever." And they said, "Yeah, we got a bunch of simulators doing nothing and instructors doing nothing, and we're getting rid of people. But yeah, if you want to come back, you're supposed to come back anyway, so, yeah, go ahead." And then that's when I did.

Because it literally took two and a half months from the time that I came back for me to get through because you had to go through initial, a whole thing of that, then captain upgrade. It was probably pretty difficult for me because, when I left, I was going. The guy goes, "Hey, Captain, what do you want in here?" I go, "Whatever you want because I don't even look at in the box." And we didn't do any of that. And auto what? No, but we do have autopilot. We don't have anything else auto, no auto brakes, no auto this, no auto throttles. So it was definitely a different thing to come back.

Matt McCants:

It's really interesting hearing you talk about this because, I mean, here you were taking almost 20 years of being with the company, and in your spare time trying to juggle multiple schedules here. You're doing your aerobatics and getting proficiency on that. What is that like trying to separate those two worlds? And how does proficiency balancing, how does that go? What does that look like when you're doing this for 20 years?

Kirby Chambliss:

Yeah, it's so different. The difference... And it always amazed me because, honestly, when I came back... So Paul Kidder is a really good friend of mine. He's a Czech Airman. I did his IOE when he was brand new. So then I come back, he's going to do my UOE, and we had a lot of fun with that.

But the way the proficiency worked for me, fortunately, our support airplane has always been a single-engine turboprop, either a Meridian or an M600. So, I'm flying in a system. I'm flying in the weather. And they all have the same basic kind of thing, so it wasn't that crazy.

It's just I do remember when I came back, because I'd been flying with a G3000 that does all the things for you. And I come back, and I'm tapping on the heading indicator, and they're going, "What are you doing?" I go, "I'm trying to get the heading indicators through up." They're like, "It doesn't do that." I'm like, "Oh, my god, Cessna 150s do that now. This doesn't do that?" Ra, ra, ra, ra, ra. I thought that was comical.

But the rest of it, if I told my wife, I go, "I feel like an imposter that they're really going to do this." And I mean, fortunately, I'm senior, so I'm flying with the Lance Captains or whatever, but I could have been flying with our brand new guys second day, right off the thing. You don't know.

Matt McCants:

But you definitely had a lot of reps there when you were doing it on your own time and still flying with the Company, so you were used to doing a balancing act.

Kirby Chambliss:

Yes.

Matt McCants:

That's what I really want to look at is these 20 years where it's on your own time-

Kirby Chambliss:

Yeah.

Matt McCants:

... that you are managing your schedule at Southwest, and you're also flying aerobatics. And now you have to take out one brain when you're in one world and put your other brain on when you're in the Southwest world.

Kirby Chambliss:

Yeah, and a lot of people thought, "Oh, they're giving you special this," or whatever, is just I had enough seniority in order to play that game and be able to bid good enough turns or whatever in order to dump it and be able to manage my schedule like that.

But especially from the proficiency stuff, I mean, flying is flying. And for me, I mean at that point, I probably had 17,000 hours on a 737. Yeah, okay, procedures change and all that, but at the end of the day you can still... Even when I came back, I mean, I remember Paul going... They third runway change into Denver, and he's going, "Okay, you can do this." And I go, click, and he goes, "Or you can do that." I go, "I'm never going to get all... I mean, just going to fly over there and land."

I mean, I can still fly the airplane. So, for me, I never had, like, "Oh, my god, this is..." Because that's the easy part. It's just all this stuff that I never did, for me, was the most difficult part. And I'm really good at delegating, since I'm the captain. I'm like, "Yeah, put that in there for me," because it's going to take me a half an hour, but these guys are like... Then it's in there, and they just type away. So, I'd be like, "Yeah, yep, throw that in there for me, too. Yeah, put that in there, too."

So, it's not like I wasn't flying. I mean, I flew, flying all the time, every time. And when I was on the U.S. Aerobatic Team, I flew three times a day at 20 minutes a shot. When you're trying to be the best in the world, you got to practice more than anybody. There's no special. Oh, my god, you just got to practice more than everybody else, and so I was always flying.

Tony Mulhare:

Let's talk about that for a second. So, you're a kid growing up, pushing airplanes around, fueling jets. You start flying. You get into some aerobatics, but then you became a world aerobatic champion.

Kirby Chambliss:

Uh-huh.

Tony Mulhare:

That certainly takes a winning mindset. Is that something you've always had? Is that something that you developed over time? Where did that come from?

Kirby Chambliss:

I've always wanted to win. I'm just a competitive person, when we were doing the racing at towards the end and stuff, and it was very lucrative for me too. And some of the guys, you think, man, we're spending so much money on developing it to try to get another fraction of a second and all this stuff, and sometimes I was just like, it would be nice if I could just say, "You know what? So what if we're third or whatever and just take the money and not have to deal with all this." And then somebody remind me, "Oh, yeah, remember?" And then I'm like, "Oh, yeah, I'm a competitive person." Yeah. So, I always want to win.

But that would've been the smart thing to do is just... Because at the end of the day, it struck, but for me, I always want to win, and I've always been that way. I don't know why. I don't really know what makes you that, but I set a goal and I want to accomplish that. And with competition aerobatics, it's not like there's a really big pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

I think, so much of it, you do it for you. And for me, it's just I was always looking for that perfect flight or trying to come close to that, and I was willing to give up on everything else in order to do that. I think I have an addictive personality. I'm all in. Once I'm in, I'm in. That's it, and everything. Sometimes that's good. I think, if you're trying to do something, it's really good. Maybe for the social side of it or family side of it, I'm sure they would say that you suffer.

But I tell people, I go, "There's couple of things that I'm really thankful for. Thank God for every day, one. I was born in the U.S. where I feel like that you can be anybody you want to be if you're willing to work hard. That doesn't mean you're not going to have to sacrifice at all, but you can be anybody that you want to be. And then he gave me that drive in order to want to go there and want to do that, and that work ethic in order to do it."

Matt McCants:

Part of talking about winning and developing a winning mindset and keeping your competitive edge, you're still doing this thing where you're balancing trying to win races and managing risk all the time. And this is a theme with this, with you, is there's contrast in your life all the time. You're competitively flying in races. You're doing low altitude aerobatics. Then you're stepping over to the Company's side and now negotiating the National Airspace System, a different crew, all kinds of different kinds of flying here, but risk is kind of embedded with all this. Did these kinds of contrast help shape your personal approach to risk management?

Kirby Chambliss:

Yeah. I guess in air show flying, we have a thing saying, "It's okay to kill yourself. It's not nice to kill anyone else." But I mean, with the airline thing, I mean, people are always like, "Hey, did you ever think about rolling it or doing all that?" And you're like, "Yeah, I thought about it. Then I thought about the 5th and the 20th." And then I said, "And probably I shouldn't do that."

But people were like, "Is the airline flying boring?" I'm like, "Yeah, they're paying for it to be boring. That's the whole point. It's not supposed to be exciting. Racing, this is exciting. So, it's a different thing. And, for sure, there's much more risk in what you're doing with the racing and the aerobatics and everything. But again, it's you, and you're willing to take that risk, but they are paying to be moved from point A to point B, the smoothest and the safest."

That's another thing I always tried to... When I flew corporate, a guy told me, he goes, "I always try..." And I learned so much from these guys. In flying, you take a little bit, "I like what you do in this, but I don't like that, so I'm going to take that and put my little bag of tricks. And I like what you do here," and you build your own bag of tricks.

And one of my guys that I flew with, that I was just so lucky to be able to fly with, smart guy, and he's like, "I always think of my 70-year-old grandmother back there. She hates to fly. So, everything that I do, I do that she's back there. So, everything is smooth, everything is level, if you try to fly that way."

Now, with the autopilots, flying his brakes and all that, we don't do as much of that, but that was always the mindset. You tried to level the airplane off and never go into the acquire mode. You just go into altitude whole, and you play the game with yourself to always try to fly smooth and like that.

So then it's just different. To me, it's like, "Did you want to roll a 737 or do that?" or even these airplanes, they ask me, "Do you ever roll that?" I go, "Hell no. I have a race car. It's like going... I got a race car and I got a school bus. Do you ever take the school bus out on the racetrack and see it race around? No, not really. Why would I? I have a Ferrari or a race car. So, no, I wouldn't do that.

And it's the same. It's just separate. It's still flying, but it's separate. You guys are military. I mean, it's a different mission, but that mission is supposed to be boring and you try to keep it boring. The racing, not so much. It's about beating the clock, and you're going to cut whatever you can in order to be able to do that, and you're going to have to risk more in order to be able to do that.

Tony Mulhare:

Kirby, your dad flew, right?

Kirby Chambliss:

Yeah, so my dad was a private pilot.

Tony Mulhare:

He flew jumpers?

Kirby Chambliss:

No, he was a skydiver. He was a jumpmaster.

Tony Mulhare:

Ah, okay.

Kirby Chambliss:

That's kind of where the flying... My dad would throw... I was a little kid, and we'd go to the drop zone. And my dad was this jumpmaster-

Tony Mulhare:

Okay.

Kirby Chambliss:

... so he has students. And I would ride up in a, back then, in like a 182 or whatever. And I, little pajamas on and freezing your ass off, and everybody jumps out. And sometimes that'd let me ride along, and I'd ride along with the jump pilot. And sometimes they'd be like, "Oh," and I just thought this is coolest, being able to fly.

That was really before my dad started, before we got the Ercoupe and everything, so I was even smaller. And we'd have everything. We'd be throwing the little parachute guy up at the drop zone with everybody. You know what I'm saying? The little-

Tony Mulhare:

Yeah, yeah, that little toy? Yeah.

Kirby Chambliss:

... the toy parachute thing and the planes and all that. So, I don't really remember ever thinking I wanted to do anything else. I just always wanted to be a pilot. For me, that's what I thank God for it, too, because then all I had to do was just figure it out.

A lot of people don't know what they want to do. I've talked to people at 30, 40 years old, and you're like, "Well, better figure it out because you're running out of time. We're all running out of time." So, for me, it was easy because I just knew what I wanted to do.

Tony Mulhare:

I grew up around airplanes, too. My dad was an Air Force pilot, but also flew GA. Some of my earliest memories are flying to go get a $100 hamburger with my dad when I was three. Couldn't even reach the rudder pedals, but he'd let me steer the yoke. But most people don't grow up around airplanes. So, would you talk a little bit about the air show flying that you've done and introducing younger people to this thing that we call aviation?

Kirby Chambliss:

Aviation has been so good to me. I mean, I always try to promote general aviation and airline flying, I mean, all that because it's been my life, and it's been very, very good to me. I think it's a fantastic way to make a living, even these days. I mean, I think, before, it was better, but even these days.

But what would happen to me a lot at a air show or something, or a race, or whatever, I would have people come up to me and always make me feel old, but they'd be like, "I started flying because of this race," or, "I saw you at an air show," and all that. And I'm like, it makes me feel old, but it does make you feel good, too, that somebody went, "Wow, that's cool what he's doing. I want to do that," or, "I want to fly now," or, "Flying must be cool."

I even was able to tell the CEO Dietrich Mateschitz, of Red Bull, that I don't know if he realizes what he did because I think so many people saw that. And again, it doesn't mean that it's any better than the Reno Air Races, or Miller, or whatever. It's just that it's on TV, and millions of people would see it. And they're like, "Oh, that's interesting," and maybe they never would have before.

So, I think that that made it to where, yeah, I mean, a lot of people tell me, "I was watching you race," at certain race, or this, or that, or whatever, and, "That's when I started flying."

Tony Mulhare:

Have you ever flown with Southwest with somebody that started flying because-

Kirby Chambliss:

Yeah.

Tony Mulhare:

... of you?

Kirby Chambliss:

In aviation circles, I do get, "Oh, I seen you," and especially when we were on TV all the time. But outside of that, because of the race, people would recognize you or something. And I would never do that. I've had... What's the guy that sings, the ops agent in the... Great guy. You got on there when I would come back and someone started making a PA about, "That's Kirby Chandler today. He's a..." ah la.

Like, "Oh, my god, don't do that." They're going to be like, "Oh, he crammed [inaudible 00:28:57]," or right now, if anything goes wrong, they're like, "I know who the guy was." So, I would never do that and would prefer nobody else did. So, it's kind of cool, but anyway.

Matt McCants:

I think you said two very important things from a broad scale that we can take away from this. One, aviation has been really good to you.

Kirby Chambliss:

100%.

Matt McCants:

And I think everybody in this hangar right now can say that, "Aviation has been just as big of a gift to me."

Kirby Chambliss:

Yeah.

Matt McCants:

And then the other thing, that we are all these little pieces of pilots that we've all flown with, and we're taking these little pieces that we like and making that part of who we are as pilots.

Kirby Chambliss:

Sure.

Matt McCants:

... and maybe not doing the things that we experience with other pilots that, "Hey, I don't think I would do it that way."

Kirby Chambliss:

Yeah.

Matt McCants:

And it's this balance that we strike. We talk about it a little bit at the Company and at SWAPA, too, about, okay, there's the profession of airline flying, but there's this inherent part of being aircrew that has some natural mentorship with it. Because, again, I don't think there's a pilot out there that doesn't have at least somebody in mind when they think of a pilot that was senior to them that showed the way in the right scenario at the right time. So, what kind of responsibility do we have to embrace this mentorship concept, encourage young people to fly, and show people the way when you see the opportunity?

Kirby Chambliss:

Yeah. I mean, again, just like what you said, we want to do that. We want to share this experience because if something has been so good to you, you want to tell somebody about it. I mean, it's a great way to make a living. It's amazing, and you're sitting up there.

I mean, I remember when the first time I was sitting up at 35,000 feet, and I'm having a sandwich. I mean, this is pretty cool, and this is my job. And I got this picture window that changes about every three seconds to something else. I mean, who gets to do this? We're very, very fortunate to be able to do that.

I also felt like, as an airline pilot, back when we had three flight attendants. My thing was always... It takes five people to fly this airplane now, maybe more, but at the time, five people. So, I always, I can't do without them and they can't do without me. It's a crew, and it's that part of it. It's just not one person. It's all of us. I always try to keep that in my mind, too, that I need everybody here in order to accomplish what we're trying to accomplish, and the same, I guess you could say, even with everybody outside.

Tony Mulhare:

Kirby, there's a quotation that says, "For everyone that has been given much, much will be demanded." You've certainly been blessed with your fair share of talent, and I know you've done some charity stuff as well. Can you talk a little bit about the charities that you're involved in and what you do to give back?

Kirby Chambliss:

Yeah. I mean, I've done some stuff with Make-A-Wish Foundation. We do Young Eagles stuff at Oshkosh, the kids thing, and even when we're busy, anytime we get an opportunity because I love aviation. I truly do. I mean, it's, again, so I want people to have the joy in their life and like that, and so you try to promote that. But yeah, it's true. I've been blessed. And it's my job in order to try to reach out and help people and up a little flying here and there and with somebody.

And just recently started flying helicopters, and so the guys over at Quantum said they actually need to maybe start giving me a commission because I've sent so many people over there, including now, and tell them, and different guys that I know. And they're all going over there to learn to fly helicopters. It's just so cool that I'm like, "This is the neatest thing ever," and then you end up pushing people over there.

I feel the same way about flying. It's the coolest thing ever. We're so fortunate to be able to do it, and you just want to spread the word about it.

Matt McCants:

And it seems like giving to an aviation charity is a charity that kind of gives back to itself. The return that you see on that, the return that we all see on that is very much worth it, in your eyes at least. Right?

Kirby Chambliss:

Yeah, 100%. I mean, we need people to fly these airplanes around, and we need mechanics. We need all these things, so it's our job to tell people how cool it is and to try to give them the opportunity.

Again, I go back to my... I didn't know anybody. It made it harder. I think if I'd have known somebody said, "Well, this is how you do it," and, oh, I mean, it would have made it a little bit easier for me because I didn't have the access to it as much. So, if I get that opportunity to give somebody access to it or help a little bit, then I'm going to do it.

Tony Mulhare:

So, you started here at Southwest when you were 25. Right?

Kirby Chambliss:

As a pilot, 24. I turned 25 in class.

Tony Mulhare:

We have a lot of young pilots again, right out of this Destination 225 class, and they have a vastly different experience than what you had. What would you say now, at the end of your career with Southwest, to those 24 and 25-year-olds who are just starting their career at Southwest?

Kirby Chambliss:

Like I would tell everybody, I mean, they're following their dreams. And fortunately, and now is the time, there's never been a better time for that. Again, back then, when I got hired, it required a lot of experience and a lot of hours and all that, and it was very difficult to get. And now, I think, with that program, it allows somebody basically to go from zero to 60 almost overnight.

And that's got its good things, and it's got its bad things, too. You're fortunate to be able to fly most of the time with some pretty experienced people and try to add to your bag of tricks by seeing things that you really like, and try to continue to work on your own proficiency, and try to be the best pilot that you can be.

That's what we all want. We all try to be the best. And we're always trying to do our best and make the best landing and make the best approach and all that, and strive for perfection. You won't get there, but that's how you get better is when you're always striving for perfection.

Tony Mulhare:

We'd like to thank Kirby for taking the time to welcome us into his hangar and speaking with us about his career with the Company, as an aerobatic and racing champion, and the work he continues to do, inspiring and assisting young people on their path to earning their wings.

If you have any feedback for this podcast or any of our comm products, please send us your thoughts at comm@swapa.org. We really do want to hear from you.

Matt McCants:

Finally, today's bonus number is 149,105. That's the current balance with the Future of Aviation Scholarship, which is SWAPA's official scholarship. While the guidelines, application, and process is still being set up by the committee, stay tuned for details on how to contribute to the fund, so we at SWAPA can encourage and assist the next generation to follow us into the ranks of aviation professionals.