The SWAPA Number
The SWAPA Number
Expenses | Contract 2029 SEP Education
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Welcome back to the Contract 2029 Survey Education and Poll Series. Today we are relaunching the Contract 2020 TA Education podcast on Section 3: Expenses, which was originally recorded in December 2023.
Most of that conversation between NC Chair Kurt Heideman and President Jody Reven, who was the NC Chair at the time, is still true.
Hopefully this will provide a thorough look at what our expenses language says today, some background and context on how we arrived at this language, and how it compares to the rest of the industry.
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Welcome back to the Contract 2029 Survey Education and Poll Series. I'm your Communications Committee Chair Matt McCantz. Today we're relaunching the Contract 2020 TA Education Podcast on Section 3, Expenses, which was originally recorded in December of 2023. Most of that conversation between NC Chair Kurt Heideman and President Jody Revin, who was the NC Chair at the time, is still true. Hopefully, this will provide a thorough look at what our expense language says today, some background and context on how we arrived at this language and how it compares to the rest of the industry. But before we play that episode, we want to provide a few updates. First, Contract 2020 provides an annual allowance to purchase uniforms from MH. You'll hear Kurt say in a few minutes that while the language does not specify explicitly, that allowance can be used to purchase anything that the company vendor sells. Unfortunately, as of July 2026, we are still unable to use our uniform allowance to purchase luggage from MH. SwapA has grieved the issue, and we are scheduled to take it to binding arbitration next month because we remain committed to allow pilots to purchase luggage with the uniform allowance. Second, you'll hear Jody talk about the additional $20 per diem for long flights that most of us are familiar with by now. What he doesn't mention is that this applies only if a crew meal is not provided. So here's what has happened. Some international turns block more than four hours each way. Because the company provides crew meals at international outstations, they have not been paying the additional per diem on either leg. Fortunately, we have reached a settlement with the company. The outbound flight from the U.S. to the international station will receive the $20 per diem if it is over four hours, and the return flight will receive the crew meal. Lastly, you'll hear Jody explain that involuntarily displaced pilots get one hotel night reimburse per wrap. The company has been denying reimbursements to pilots who booked a hotel for the duration of a wrap block and were subsequently assigned. Swap aggrieved the issue, which has also been recently settled, and the company will reimburse pilots like the CBA requires. The settlement states that affected pilots will be expected to book refundable rooms when practical. Pilots are requested to check out of the room when assigned, but will not be required to do so. Any hotel booked immediately before, during, or after a wrap will be reimbursed regardless of assignment. So take a listen to this episode from 2023. Think about the updates we just talked about, and carry all that forward as you execute the survey and polling for the expenses portion of Contract 2029.
SPEAKER_02All right, Jody, uh let's start out at the top. Section three, expenses. Give us the overview of the new section.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, this is uh this is a section that's all new for uh contract 2020. Moving expense also is uh it's currently a standalone part of our current contract, but we've incorporated it at the end of this section. It was kind of scattered out in different places in general and displacements and that th those type of places, but we've kind of condensed it down to one-stop shopping for the pilot here. Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_02I think part of the pitch we had back as we introduced it was the company nickels and dimes us on expenses compared to what our peers over to other airlines.
SPEAKER_01Aaron Powell Yeah, that's fair. And we tried to go with a different, simpler path so that we didn't have to constantly do the concurrent. I think the company realizes some savings from pilots that just don't bother. But we've made it uh most of these things to the point where they're matching or exceeding the industry. You just got to take the time to turn in the report. Aaron Powell All right.
SPEAKER_02So let's start out. Section A is expense reporting and reimbursement. What are the highlights on this section here?
SPEAKER_01Aaron Ross Powell, we give the guy about 60 days to file the expenses. You know, most of the other employees at the company have a 30-day limit. We thought 60 was reasonable if guys are traveling or if they have some vacation or that type of thing. If the reimbursements are paid, they're paid to whatever account you have on file with your direct deposit. So it should be pretty simple for the pilot and mostly through his EFB or his chief pilot.
SPEAKER_02So one of the problems that we've seen is a pilot will put at an expense that exceeds the limit. You know, they put a limit on physical exams. And if that number is too high, it gets kicked back. Is that gets solved?
SPEAKER_01Aaron Powell Yeah, I think it was early growing pains. It just wasn't common sense of the whole concurrent reality. So what we put in the language was that, you know, hey, there's a maximum. And if you're above that maximum, you only have to put in your reimbursement once. So turn in the actual receipt. If it's above the maximum, the the company will they won't kick it back. They'll just pay out whatever the maximum is for something like a flight physical or an EKG or a hotel reimbursement.
SPEAKER_02Trevor Burrus, Jr.: All right. Section B's emergency expense authority. I can tell everybody that's pretty much the current book. So let's move on to Section C, which is per diem. How has that changed in the proposed contract?
SPEAKER_01Aaron Powell So we're right up against the IRS maximum and also at the top of the industry. So, you know, currently the per diem is uh 235 for CONUS and 285 for outside of the CONUS. So we went ahead and raised that and then also put an inflationary raise on that each year, if you will, a 2.5% inflation component. So when we get to data ratification, we go up to 290, and then in January 2025, and each year thereafter, 2.5% is applied to that for the domestic, and then 345 for uh outside the CONUS.
SPEAKER_02So as we continue down, the provision that I'm reading is additional per diem. I know that affects or that's caused by crew meals. So speak to the listeners about the NC's approach and thought process as to how we arrived at this proposal.
SPEAKER_01Aaron Powell Yeah, it's tough. You know, this is the one where people talk about I just you can't eat a $20 bill. The challenge that the company has is, you know, putting ovens on 737s, but we wanted to have some type of when a guy has a long leg, we need to provide some form of reimbursement. Where we arrived at was for legs that are four hours or longer, it's a $20 per diem that's added to each leg that's four hours or longer. So this would cover all of the ETOPS flights, and you know, Lord knows it's more expensive out in Hawaii. So, you know, a guy's gonna get for an ETOPS trip that goes out and back an extra 40 bucks to deal with the meals while he's over there.
SPEAKER_02All right, Jody, uh section D, charter non-revenue flying expenses. That's no change, but basically there just looks like references to other sections, which brings us down to uniform expenses. What's new here?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so what we've done here is currently we have enjoyed if you go buy something at the uniform shop, you can have a direct build, you know, from your paycheck. We've kind of discontinued that with the pilots who have been on property. We've continued it for probationary pilots. What we did do was establish an account. So you get about 270 bucks a year. It can carry over to a maximum of 500 bucks that will be in your account. And then you can go in each year and freshen up your uniform. And if you're a new hire, it gets you set up, you know, to do business from the start.
SPEAKER_02I'd also add that uh I don't know that it says it specifically in the language, but it's for anything that the company vendor sells. So it's uniforms and luggage. I know they do carry the uh roller bags and stuff if you want to use it for that as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, great point. And we did try to get the headsets, that was just too much of a logistical nightmare. And then also the kind of the competitive of which headset brand do you put in the uniform shop? So we'll talk about that a little later, but we handle that separately.
SPEAKER_02And then before we move on from uniforms, I was just looking through the contract comparison that our EFA committee has developed that they're going to be releasing simultaneously with the new TA. And as I look through American Delta and United, the only reimbursement I see on uniforms is at United, where the pilots are allowed reasonable cleaning expenses supported by a receipt for the cleaning of jackets, trousers, shirts, and outer coats. Uh surprisingly, I don't see the other airlines as providing uh uniform replacement just in the in the event of uniform changes like they'd had with us a few years ago and went to the Black Pants. So let's move on to parking expenses. I know that's been sort of a sore subject for years and years. What do we have in the TA?
SPEAKER_01Not much different than what you know they rolled out for an enterprise-wide parking that that took a little pressure off of the negotiation. And this is uh something we beat our heads against the wall, you know, where we have to provide something for everyone. And in this case, it ended up being to our benefit because we didn't have to expend negotiating capital. So they're they're gonna provide parking at the bases. If that parking isn't to your liking, they'll pay you a reimbursement of up to 60 bucks a month and also do that at any Southwest station. And you just handle that through your coordinators and your chief pilots through the FB.
SPEAKER_02Now we have a lot of opportunities for paid parking, whether it's short notice call-outs or co-terminal flying. How does that affect these parking expenses?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, very different. That's above and but in addition to you'll hear in the other sections when we talk about reserve callouts and when we get to co-terminals late in the implementation schedule where you can Uber back and forth. So we definitely achieved above and beyond what just this base parking provides.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Powell All right. Next sections on FAA physical examination expenses. Tell us about those.
SPEAKER_01This one was surprisingly a tough one to get people to understand, but we're there. We basically just matched what the top of the industry delta amount was as a cap for expenses, and then just put an inflator on there for each year. So the new caps on your medical exams $298, $191 for an EKG, and then we just put a 3% inflation. And keep in mind these are maxes. So, you know, if you've got one of those uh AMEs that charges uh, you know, still 180 bucks, you know, it's not going to pay above and beyond. And as we kind of mentioned earlier, you just put in the receipt and they'll pay you whatever it is up to that maximum of 298.
SPEAKER_02And we also made a point that they're going to continue to reimburse based on a single email or a single entry through the EFB app where you just send in the receipt and a picture of your medical. You don't have to do the concur. At least the pilot doesn't. It's always getting done in the background, so it's not really saving the company anything, but it's a better pilot experience. Absolutely. Before we move on from physical exams, I do want to just highlight the fact that at the OALs, Jody, you mentioned that that was matching top of industry, which is Delta. That's true. Their difference is they get a payment, a flat reimbursement. They call it a reimbursement, but it's actually a stipend, is what they get for that amount. Americans reimbursement matches deltas, but they don't have the inflator that we have. And then uh United is limited to $100 for an exam and $75 for an EKG, which is actually lower than the $120 and $50 that we have today. So that's uh OAL comparisons on physical exams. Now, before we move on from that, talk about the non-routine FAA medical exams and how those work.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there's a small percentage of our pilots who are on the special issuance waivers. And oftentimes, you know, the everything they have has been covered by our benefits. Of course, the benefits certainly got better in this negotiation, but in the event that they're not covered, you know, sometimes these guys are having to do out-of-pocket tests or exams. So we we established, you know, through the cap program with the company, if they can show, hey, look, this wasn't covered under the regular plan or the choice plus plan, whichever they were in, but I had to do this in in order to get my special issuance waiver. We've established a $5,000 per procedure cap and then also a $10,000 lifetime cap. So should should be able to get these guys back up and fly, and especially the cardio guys. A lot of times that stuff is a little more expensive than they saw coming in. So made sure that we didn't leave those guys behind.
SPEAKER_02All right. Section H is required documents and international expenses. I think we can probably jump through that just saying that there's no real changes from today will get reimbursed. So let's move down to headset, section I. Tell us about that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the headset uh reimbursement. This is the company getting out of the headset business. But the way it's worded and the way we confirmed and the way they mean it is that every pilot who has finished new hire training ever uh at this company and currently on the seniority list can do a one-time, one thousand dollar reimbursement for a headset. So if you're flying on one that's getting a little raggedy or you don't have the noise canceling, uh get out there and get a headset and get that reimbursed with your chief pilot.
SPEAKER_02So then section J is well, side of badges, no change, and then K is moving expenses. You said this came from a previous standalone section. Walk us through this and the changes here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so this has been added because you know, in leaves of absence, we agreed to moving leave for all domiciles, and that changes if a pilot moves his household, but only non-voluntary displacements and new bases will will qualify for the leave to be paid. So, you know, the uh the paid moves will be provided for new domiciles, displacements, and uh return from furlough. So there's lots of you know confusion in this, and so you know, for instance, the opening of LA and the flipping of Oakland E tops that highlights some of the vague and conflicting language in our current CBA. So language this section is meant to clarify current practice and intent when it comes to what a newly established dome missile is, and also when a pilot qualifies for a paid move. But there's no real change to current intent and practice except for some distances. As you know, the current CBA paid moves, it's 200 highway miles or 50 miles from a SWA airport, 1.5 TFP from a new dome missile. So we had to kind of adjust for the fact that cities are getting bigger and more expensive. So we expanded the radius out to 250 miles, and we increased the uh commuter city range to uh 75 miles of an airport and also used a uh within 1.6 TFP as opposed to the 1.5.
SPEAKER_02Okay. So generally the reason that we'll use this section of moving expenses is for involuntary displacements, because that's the majority of the people that get impacted by this. What's changed here?
SPEAKER_01So currently you get uh two nights per reserve block that could be reimbursed, and then we change that in contract 2020 to a one night per wrap, which makes more sense if you go unused, that that you could, you know, get paid for every day that you're sitting in that hotel. With release to check in and our new rules, it's not as likely if a guy wants to fly. I think that was actually why it kind of helped the company be on board with agreeing to this provision, but it it's a mutual benefit for us to make sure that the guy's reimbursed for every 90 cents.
SPEAKER_02All right. So continuing down through the moving expenses, I see some changes to the moves themselves, the money down there. How about changes to the moving expenses or limits? So mainly just the weights.
SPEAKER_01We just had to address, you know, what the new reality is, and also what was in the company's guideline for employees was higher at one point than what was there for our pilots. And our pilots move a lot more than people that work, you know, for the GO. So we shored those up, got the weights increased from 18,000 to 25,000 pounds per move. Also, the mileage increase from 24 and 18 cents per mile to 67 cents per mile for each vehicle. That's a big jump. It's a big jump, but it it also matches the published IRS rate, you know, so it it just made sense. And then there's a twelve hundred dollar reimbursement for any costs uh in association with selling your home. And that's always something that pilots have to address if they're making a move to a newer base, et cetera. So you know, one that hadn't thought of, but I thought it was a great idea, was we ended up with a lease uh termination reimbursement in contract 2020, because a lot of times these things happen, you know, and a guy's uh especially a new guy who's living in a place temporarily and he could get displaced at a time where, you know, it didn't match up to his lease.
SPEAKER_02That lease reimbursement's the same twelve hundred dollars that the guy who owns his house would get paid for selling his, so those match up.
SPEAKER_01Yes, good point.
SPEAKER_02And then it looks like the rest is sort of just tax and sounds like Damien got involved in this. There's a lot of taxes and other little details in there until we get down to travel. Explain that one for the listeners.
SPEAKER_01Aaron Powell To me, this should have been a freebie a long time ago. The must-ride travel for a pilot and his family, and then you can designate up to two house hunting trips for purchase uh and moving and sale of your former home. Uh so the reasons aren't in stone, but examples of how they could be used. You know, we just uh kind of put that in there. We would always say in the contract 2020, you know, see a pilot, board a pilot. Let's get them on if they want to travel. It's a perk that other carriers provide their pilots. You know, it's free. Why are we not doing this? And we managed to make quite a bit of ground in Contract 2020 in that.
SPEAKER_00That concludes this flashback to the Contract 2020 TA Education Podcast. Be sure to check out all the other Contract 2029 education materials on swapa.org or the swap app under the negotiating point. Continue to stay engaged with the surveys and polls. The retirement and expenses survey is open now and closes on August 10th, and the poll opens August 31st. Thanks for listening, and as always, fly safe, fly informed.